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Topics - deanwebb

#1
The biggest difference between Zero Trust (ZT) thinking and earlier design concepts is that ZT means there is *no* trusted zone. There is *no* area of the network where we can safely assume that only the Good Guys are doing things in. Assume a breach can happen from any direction, starting in any location. Where you are not looking is where the attacker is preparing a base of operations.

Taking a step back from plunging into raving paranoia (which can be a good career choice, should you want to be deeper in security), ZT networking means the end of the flat network where everything can reach everything else. It's about determining what communications need to go where and permitting those and no more. The reason? Attackers, being unfamiliar with the network, will do probes and recon missions that go all over the place so they can plan their next moves. Blocking recon at the start makes things that much more difficult for attackers.

Which means they go the human route more and more - intimidation is on the rise as a component in cyberattacks, which means our own employees are more and more likely to use their access to permit attackers' entry and operations. Therefore, we have to keep an eye on those employee credentials, making Identity Management a critical pillar of ZT. No more assign users to groups and give groups rights on the network: assign users to groups and group members can check out temporary credentials to perform tracked and monitored functions.

Is this a bit police state-y? Yes. Yes, it is. If you read histories of how the East German secret police, the Stasi, ran operations, you will see ZT shot through their thinking. I abhor everything the Stasi stood for - oppression, silencing voices, totalitarianism - but at the same time, I can learn from studying them. By no means do I ever want to go as far as keeping scent samples on people so I can track them down with dogs or develop planar discharge mines to kill only people (or animals, as it turned out) who tried to cross border fences. But do I see a need to track and record all admin actions? Yes, I do. Most won't be reviewed, but if a forensic investigation arises, we want those for the investigation, 100%.
#2
Looks like we got to re-do the plugins to hunt down their 2.1.4 equivalents and fix up the look and feel to get back to where it was. Also need the logo in the upper left.

Don't click on the "More" by the smilies unless you want to have a pop-up block your post with no obvious way to close it. Hitting refresh will clear the pop-up as well as anything you typed before that.  ???
#3
Forum Lobby / What Are You Gaming Right Now?
August 23, 2023, 08:22:01 AM
For me, it's Baldur's Gate 3, really hard. MAN this is a great game. I've put in 127 hours since release and loved all them hours, so hell yes that's value for my entertainment dollar.

I like dealing out remote damage, so I have a party with a rogue, 2 rangers, and a sorcerer. Hand crossbows are the way to go in this game. Coupled with the sharpshooter feat, they can deal out massive damage and the battle's over in a round.
#4
Remember 10 years ago when all this was pretty much about to start or just getting going? Well, it's time to look back and ask - how much have these techs changed what we used to do on the network and how much was able to stay the same?

For me, the cloud has absolutely done the most disruption in that the cloud environment itself is an SDN and is very amenable to automation. Costs aside, the ease of management in the cloud is a strong case for shifting up there. On-prem vendors have been scrambling to get cloud solutions together, and a fair number of them have some strong tools for the clouds, but they're also going head-to-head with cloud providers that push their own tools - Microsoft - and with vendors that started in the cloud, like Netskope and Zscaler.

I haven't seen much on-prem SDN. I have seen better automation on-prem, but it's typically limited to spinning up VMs and containers and running management tools like Cisco Prime.

What's everyone else seeing out there?
#5
A Special Message from Nick

Nick is broken and getting fixed! After long avoiding it, I’m finally getting surgery for a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder. (If you’ve ever had this, you know it hurts like the Dickens!) This means my writing arm will be in a sling for about 6 weeks. Writing will be extremely difficult — more likely impossible, according to my surgeon — for part or all of that time. There are no little elves producing the Ask The Headhunter website and weekly newsletter. I write and produce all the content, and participate in the online discussions — always have, because


Join us for discussion! A Special Message from Nick



Nick is broken and getting fixed!


After long avoiding it, I’m finally getting surgery for a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder. (If you’ve ever had this, you know it hurts like the Dickens!)


rotator-cuffThis means my writing arm will be in a sling for about 6 weeks. Writing will be extremely difficult — more likely impossible, according to my surgeon — for part or all of that time.


There are no little elves producing the Ask The Headhunter website and weekly newsletter. I write and produce all the content, and participate in the online discussions — always have, because I like to mix it up with my readers.


While Ask The Headhunter goes on hiatus a few times a year for holidays and vacation, it’s never been for more than a couple of weeks. The April 25, 2023 column will likely be the last you — dear reader — will see until my arm can pitch fastballs again.


I’ll be back…


So you likely will not see a new Q&A column until the end of May or beginning of June. Your subscription to the newsletter will of course remain active, and as soon as my shoulder is fixed, it will appear again like magic in your e-mail!


In the meantime…


Please explore these popular Ask The Headhunter Resources:


The Basics


Ask The Headhunter In A Nutshell


Should I keep interviewing after I accepted a job offer?


What's Better: Quit or get fired?


Protect Your Job: Don't give notice when accepting a new job


Say NO to tests prior to an interview


Reductionist Recruiting: A short history of why you can't get hired


The Bogus-ness of Indeed.com


Ask The Headhunter Bookstore (and long-forgotten photo of Nick with a soul patch – urgh!)


The Q&A Archive


See ya soon!


I will have a little elf pulling up my e-mails for me periodically, so feel free to drop me a short note if you like — but please be aware that I probably won’t be able to reply. I still love ya!


Thank you for being part of the Ask The Headhunter community, and for your patience!


Nick Corcodilos

Ask The Headhunter


: :


Join us for discussion! A Special Message from Nick


Source: A Special Message from Nick
#6
Compensation: Negotiate beyond money

Question I recently decided to leave a Fortune 100 company after nearly seven years. I accepted a generous severance package and have just been offered a good job at a small but growing company. I don’t think this company can match my salary demands so I would like your advice on compensation — how to negotiate professionally with them. Thanks. Nick’s Reply Job candidates can flub negotiations if they fail to recognize that there are two components to compensation. There’s money, and there’s everything else. If you ignore that dichotomy and focus primarily on the money, you miss the point


Join us for discussion! Compensation: Negotiate beyond money



Question


I recently decided to leave a Fortune 100 company after nearly seven years. I accepted a generous severance package and have just been offered a good job at a small but growing company. I don’t think this company can match my salary demands so I would like your advice on compensation — how to negotiate professionally with them. Thanks.


Nick’s Reply


compensation negotiateJob candidates can flub negotiations if they fail to recognize that there are two components to compensation. There’s money, and there’s everything else. If you ignore that dichotomy and focus primarily on the money, you miss the point of compensation and you might forego a job you really want. Of course, if salary is the key for you, then much of this advice won’t be helpful. But if you’re open to alternatives to salary alone, read on.


What is compensation?


Compensation is not necessarily just money. An employer compensates, or “counterbalances or makes amends for” actions you have taken (that is, work you have done) for the employer's benefit. Viewed this way, compensation might have little or nothing to do with paying you money.


You might think I’m batty, but if you’re forced to negotiate with an employer who can’t meet your salary requirements, suddenly the idea of negotiating beyond money gets interesting. Let’s consider what compensation really means.


What is compensation for?


You devote time, effort, brain power, and perhaps muscle to do a job. These resources are all limited. You deplete them from your life as you deliver them to your employer.


For example, you take time away from your family so you can do the job. Who takes care of your kids? Who grows the potatoes for your dinner? Where do you find time to build a shack to shelter your family from the cold?


If you’re going to tend the job your employer needs done, who will take care of your needs? Simple: your employer. A company must compensate, or counterbalance, for what it takes away from your life — or you will not be available to do the job you're hired for.


What kinds of compensation are there?


An employer could provide you with housing. (Coal mines used to build entire towns to house their workers. We won’t get into how this system was often abused.) Or, it could give you food. (Restaurants often feed their workers.) In recent times, companies have provided on-site day care for children, or have allowed employees to bring pets to work. If your mortgage, meals, and child care were covered, salary might not be the only salient component of your compensation. You might instead focus on negotiating for a house rather than a shack; for education in addition to child care; and for steak rather than potatoes for your kids.


Did you negotiate for any of those things the last time you entertained a job offer? Maybe you should have, especially when the employer couldn’t cough up the cash you wanted. (See How I negotiate compensation.)


Of course, the list of potential forms of compensation is virtually endless and depends on the company and on you. The challenge is to explore the best, most reasonable alternatives together.


Compensation: Negotiate beyond money


Now, some of these examples are admittedly extreme. But when a company is strapped for cash, should you hang your head and walk away? For better compensation, negotiate beyond money. The smart job hunter knows to shift the negotiation to non-cash, non-salary forms of compensation. You can suggest acceptable alternatives and help the company identify ways to “make amends for” its inability to compensate you in cash. To do this, you must be able to express your needs in terms that can get them satisfied.


Cash futures. If a company can’t match your salary requirements, but you still want the job, don’t fight it. Instead, put other compensation options on the table.


These might include “cash futures”: company stock, an early review with a guaranteed raise, an incentive plan based on agreed-upon performance criteria, guaranteed severance upon termination, elimination of a non-compete clause, or a retention bonus payable once you’ve been on the job for one year.


Salary alternatives. Then there are indirect benefits, on which a company gets a discount (think tax write-off, too), but which deliver value to the employee: computer equipment and other technology to use at home, extended paid vacation, a transportation reimbursement, an expense allowance, child care benefits, a paid cell phone, education benefits, and tax advice services or even payment of taxes (not uncommon for executives).


Priceless time. There’s also quality-of-life compensation: flex time, sabbatical leave, unpaid time off and, nowadays, the freedom to work from home. Most people crave more control over their schedules. You won’t get paid for those summer Fridays off, but if a company can’t afford a full week’s work anyway, you still have a job to go back to on Monday.


Money is great because it's fungible. It’s an almost universal medium of exchange. It gives us the freedom to buy what we need. But when cash is tight, there’s also freedom in knowing how to negotiate beyond money to get compensated for our work in other ways. You must be able to discuss alternatives, because creative compensation terms might yield a job where there was none.


I'd never suggest taking a job that doesn't pay well enough, unless maybe if you're desperate. To be a really effective negotiator, you must be prepared to walk away from any deal that's not good enough. But before you walk away from a good job with a good employer that "can't afford you," try to boost the compensation — negotiate beyond money.


Have you ever foregone higher salary for something else important to you? Have you successfully negotiated beyond money? What are the top three forms of compensation for you? What’s the most unusual form of compensation you’ve received for your work?


: :


Join us for discussion! Compensation: Negotiate beyond money


Source: Compensation: Negotiate beyond money
#7
Just Say It: I want the job

Question I had a coffee with a potential manager in his company café and we discussed my past and current experience but it wasn't referred to as an interview. It lasted 1.5 hours. The final 30 minutes were with his manager, who dropped by. I never applied for a job and never shared my resume. We connected on LinkedIn and arranged the coffee through LinkedIn messages. I know he has a job opening (and one more coming up) and he confirmed that in our coffee chat, but he didn't explicitly say the chat was an interview for the job opening,


Join us for discussion! Just Say It: I want the job



Question


I had a coffee with a potential manager in his company café and we discussed my past and current experience but it wasn't referred to as an interview. It lasted 1.5 hours. The final 30 minutes were with his manager, who dropped by.


I never applied for a job and never shared my resume. We connected on LinkedIn and arranged the coffee through LinkedIn messages. I know he has a job opening (and one more coming up) and he confirmed that in our coffee chat, but he didn't explicitly say the chat was an interview for the job opening, so I am wondering how I can follow up without sounding like I am bluntly following up on a formal interview. I'd like to get feedback and want to know what next steps are. Should I send him my resume and ask whether he would consider me as a candidate?


Nick’s Reply


I want the jobDon’t ask whether you’re a candidate. Tell him that he’s a candidate to be your boss.


This is the best kind of interview. It sounds promising, but we just don't know whether it's for one of the two jobs you mentioned or for something in the future.


Give the manager a signal


While you're worried this "non-interview" may lead nowhere, the manager may be waiting for you to tell him what's next. Many managers look for something few candidates ever display: motivation and desire for the job.


Having the right skills and experience is important, but I find that the best managers won't make a hire unless they see clear indications a person really wants to work for them. Motivation is at least as important as skills, which can be taught. The amount of time the manager spent with you is a strong positive signal — so signal back to him.


I want the job


Use your own best judgment, of course, but I think a simple e-mail is best, confirming your enthusiasm and motivation. For example:


How to Say It



"Thanks for the good conversation last week and for all you shared about your department (and for the coffee!). I'm impressed, and I want you to know that based on what I learned, I'd be very interested in joining your team if an appropriate position is open. You're the kind of manager I want to work for. Thank you for spending so much time with me."


Very few candidates ever come out and tell a manager "I want to be on your team!" yet that's what any good manager wants to hear – a commitment! What I'm suggesting is a very clear expression of interest without being pushy. I would not send a resume. If he wants it, he'll ask for it.


Show even more enthusiasm


If you want to go a bit further in showing your enthusiasm, find a really good article that addresses an issue that was discussed during your meeting. Attach it to your e-mail along with a couple of comments about why the manager may find it helpful. Show that you're already thinking like an employee.


When you make yourself this clear, you need not do anything else. The next move is the manager’s. Don’t keep pestering for a response. While you wait, the best next step for you is to move on to your next opportunity and pursue it the same way.


Nice work getting a meeting that's better than an interview! You had a conversation driven by your interests and the manager's — not by an "HR script." Whatever you decide, please let me know how this turns out. I hope something I've said is helpful.


(For more on the topic, check this article.)


Why do you think the manager invited the reader for coffee? Was this a job interview or something else? How should this reader follow up? Is “I want the job” the right message?


: :


 


Join us for discussion! Just Say It: I want the job


Source: Just Say It: I want the job
#8
Forum Lobby / Baldur's Gate 3 Releases Today
August 03, 2023, 08:22:57 AM
 :smug:

This *might* impact my productivity a wee tiny bit today...
#9
Forum Lobby / Facebook Scammer Account
June 12, 2023, 12:27:17 PM
I got friended by someone who claimed to be a fan of the music I play on my radio shows. I figured, sure, I'll roll the dice and accept the friend request - the personal account didn't have a lot of sketchy pictures and creepy-looking "friends", typical hallmarks of pr0n accounts.

It's now 3 weeks later and I'm getting probed for personal details and asked for pics of myself. Uhhh... my pics are visible in my account and my personal details aren't.  :smug: Nice long game, though. I'm thinking it is a person and not a chatbot - so if it is a chatbot, it's doing a hell of a job on the Turing tests.

So, yeah, don't hand out your deets online and give a cold shoulder to those who ask for them. Don't apologize - decent people understand and scammers will get outraged to try and pressure you into being "nice" so they can get the info and rip you off or worse.
#10
Security / Patch. The. Things.
May 12, 2023, 09:33:28 AM
Just read about a vulnerability in PaperCut, a paperwork reduction tool with a name that makes me cringe in pain, that's permitted a massive spike in ransomware among the customers of that product.

The fix is easy: apply the patch. What's difficult is knowing that the patch is needed, what with all the other alerts and emails everyone gets every day. What's also difficult is that the patch has to get scheduled, so as not to impact things... but then the ransomware guys get in before that window and then REALLY impact things.

I am sick of "five nines" metrics and philosophies. You get five nines until you DON'T, and then it stops hard. Really, really hard. After four days of outage due to ransomware, you're on one nine, the first one. Good news is that the outage has to be 36.5 days to lose that first nine, so you'll likely keep it.

I can get missing a notification when one is overwhelmed, especially in the public-sector, low-budget environments that are PaperCut's prime customer base. But when the notification to patch gets through, do not delay is my thinking. Apply at once and clean things up afterwards. If things go out, just call it "emergency maintenance" and it'll be up in a day or less. Yes, you took a performance hit, but no data was lost or stolen in the process. It's a good hit to performance, the way I see it.
#11
A Special Message from Nick

Nick is broken and getting fixed! After long avoiding it, I’m finally getting surgery for a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder. (If you’ve ever had this, you know it hurts like the Dickens!) This means my writing arm will be in a sling for about 6 weeks. Writing will be extremely difficult — more likely impossible, according to my surgeon — for part or all of that time. There are no little elves producing the Ask The Headhunter website and weekly newsletter. I write and produce all the content, and participate in the online discussions — always have, because


Join us for discussion! A Special Message from Nick



Nick is broken and getting fixed!


After long avoiding it, I’m finally getting surgery for a torn rotator cuff in my shoulder. (If you’ve ever had this, you know it hurts like the Dickens!)


rotator-cuffThis means my writing arm will be in a sling for about 6 weeks. Writing will be extremely difficult — more likely impossible, according to my surgeon — for part or all of that time.


There are no little elves producing the Ask The Headhunter website and weekly newsletter. I write and produce all the content, and participate in the online discussions — always have, because I like to mix it up with my readers.


While Ask The Headhunter goes on hiatus a few times a year for holidays and vacation, it’s never been for more than a couple of weeks. The April 25, 2023 column will likely be the last you — dear reader — will see until my arm can pitch fastballs again.


I’ll be back…


So you likely will not see a new Q&A column until the end of May or beginning of June. Your subscription to the newsletter will of course remain active, and as soon as my shoulder is fixed, it will appear again like magic in your e-mail!


In the meantime…


Please explore these popular Ask The Headhunter Resources:


The Basics


Ask The Headhunter In A Nutshell


Should I keep interviewing after I accepted a job offer?


What's Better: Quit or get fired?


Protect Your Job: Don't give notice when accepting a new job


Say NO to tests prior to an interview


Reductionist Recruiting: A short history of why you can't get hired


The Bogus-ness of Indeed.com


Ask The Headhunter Bookstore (and long-forgotten photo of Nick with a soul patch – urgh!)


The Q&A Archive


See ya soon!


I will have a little elf pulling up my e-mails for me periodically, so feel free to drop me a short note if you like — but please be aware that I probably won’t be able to reply. I still love ya!


Thank you for being part of the Ask The Headhunter community, and for your patience!


Nick Corcodilos

Ask The Headhunter


: :


Join us for discussion! A Special Message from Nick


Source: A Special Message from Nick
#12
Compensation: Negotiate beyond money

Question I recently decided to leave a Fortune 100 company after nearly seven years. I accepted a generous severance package and have just been offered a good job at a small but growing company. I don’t think this company can match my salary demands so I would like your advice on compensation — how to negotiate professionally with them. Thanks. Nick’s Reply Job candidates can flub negotiations if they fail to recognize that there are two components to compensation. There’s money, and there’s everything else. If you ignore that dichotomy and focus primarily on the money, you miss the point


Join us for discussion! Compensation: Negotiate beyond money



Question


I recently decided to leave a Fortune 100 company after nearly seven years. I accepted a generous severance package and have just been offered a good job at a small but growing company. I don’t think this company can match my salary demands so I would like your advice on compensation — how to negotiate professionally with them. Thanks.


Nick’s Reply


compensation negotiateJob candidates can flub negotiations if they fail to recognize that there are two components to compensation. There’s money, and there’s everything else. If you ignore that dichotomy and focus primarily on the money, you miss the point of compensation and you might forego a job you really want. Of course, if salary is the key for you, then much of this advice won’t be helpful. But if you’re open to alternatives to salary alone, read on.


What is compensation?


Compensation is not necessarily just money. An employer compensates, or “counterbalances or makes amends for” actions you have taken (that is, work you have done) for the employer's benefit. Viewed this way, compensation might have little or nothing to do with paying you money.


You might think I’m batty, but if you’re forced to negotiate with an employer who can’t meet your salary requirements, suddenly the idea of negotiating beyond money gets interesting. Let’s consider what compensation really means.


What is compensation for?


You devote time, effort, brain power, and perhaps muscle to do a job. These resources are all limited. You deplete them from your life as you deliver them to your employer.


For example, you take time away from your family so you can do the job. Who takes care of your kids? Who grows the potatoes for your dinner? Where do you find time to build a shack to shelter your family from the cold?


If you’re going to tend the job your employer needs done, who will take care of your needs? Simple: your employer. A company must compensate, or counterbalance, for what it takes away from your life — or you will not be available to do the job you're hired for.


What kinds of compensation are there?


An employer could provide you with housing. (Coal mines used to build entire towns to house their workers. We won’t get into how this system was often abused.) Or, it could give you food. (Restaurants often feed their workers.) In recent times, companies have provided on-site day care for children, or have allowed employees to bring pets to work. If your mortgage, meals, and child care were covered, salary might not be the only salient component of your compensation. You might instead focus on negotiating for a house rather than a shack; for education in addition to child care; and for steak rather than potatoes for your kids.


Did you negotiate for any of those things the last time you entertained a job offer? Maybe you should have, especially when the employer couldn’t cough up the cash you wanted. (See How I negotiate compensation.)


Of course, the list of potential forms of compensation is virtually endless and depends on the company and on you. The challenge is to explore the best, most reasonable alternatives together.


Compensation: Negotiate beyond money


Now, some of these examples are admittedly extreme. But when a company is strapped for cash, should you hang your head and walk away? For better compensation, negotiate beyond money. The smart job hunter knows to shift the negotiation to non-cash, non-salary forms of compensation. You can suggest acceptable alternatives and help the company identify ways to “make amends for” its inability to compensate you in cash. To do this, you must be able to express your needs in terms that can get them satisfied.


Cash futures. If a company can’t match your salary requirements, but you still want the job, don’t fight it. Instead, put other compensation options on the table.


These might include “cash futures”: company stock, an early review with a guaranteed raise, an incentive plan based on agreed-upon performance criteria, guaranteed severance upon termination, elimination of a non-compete clause, or a retention bonus payable once you’ve been on the job for one year.


Salary alternatives. Then there are indirect benefits, on which a company gets a discount (think tax write-off, too), but which deliver value to the employee: computer equipment and other technology to use at home, extended paid vacation, a transportation reimbursement, an expense allowance, child care benefits, a paid cell phone, education benefits, and tax advice services or even payment of taxes (not uncommon for executives).


Priceless time. There’s also quality-of-life compensation: flex time, sabbatical leave, unpaid time off and, nowadays, the freedom to work from home. Most people crave more control over their schedules. You won’t get paid for those summer Fridays off, but if a company can’t afford a full week’s work anyway, you still have a job to go back to on Monday.


Money is great because it's fungible. It’s an almost universal medium of exchange. It gives us the freedom to buy what we need. But when cash is tight, there’s also freedom in knowing how to negotiate beyond money to get compensated for our work in other ways. You must be able to discuss alternatives, because creative compensation terms might yield a job where there was none.


I'd never suggest taking a job that doesn't pay well enough, unless maybe if you're desperate. To be a really effective negotiator, you must be prepared to walk away from any deal that's not good enough. But before you walk away from a good job with a good employer that "can't afford you," try to boost the compensation — negotiate beyond money.


Have you ever foregone higher salary for something else important to you? Have you successfully negotiated beyond money? What are the top three forms of compensation for you? What’s the most unusual form of compensation you’ve received for your work?


: :


Join us for discussion! Compensation: Negotiate beyond money


Source: Compensation: Negotiate beyond money
#13
Dang, it's April, but at least I'm starting the thread!

I picked up my Eggplant certifications, level 1 and 2, and have appeased the vendor gods... for now...  :smug:

(Eggplant is a software GUI testing suite that has nothing really to do with networking, but we sell it, so I needed to get certified in it. Lots of programming stuff, but their code is easy to read and figure out, so it's all good. :D )

Now on to ServiceNOW CSA training... that's the next one I need to knock down. All these security vendors hook into SNOW, and I need to be able to both run our SNOW instances for those integrations and to talk about them intelligently with our customers.
#14
Just Say It: I want the job

Question I had a coffee with a potential manager in his company café and we discussed my past and current experience but it wasn't referred to as an interview. It lasted 1.5 hours. The final 30 minutes were with his manager, who dropped by. I never applied for a job and never shared my resume. We connected on LinkedIn and arranged the coffee through LinkedIn messages. I know he has a job opening (and one more coming up) and he confirmed that in our coffee chat, but he didn't explicitly say the chat was an interview for the job opening,


Join us for discussion! Just Say It: I want the job



Question


I had a coffee with a potential manager in his company café and we discussed my past and current experience but it wasn't referred to as an interview. It lasted 1.5 hours. The final 30 minutes were with his manager, who dropped by.


I never applied for a job and never shared my resume. We connected on LinkedIn and arranged the coffee through LinkedIn messages. I know he has a job opening (and one more coming up) and he confirmed that in our coffee chat, but he didn't explicitly say the chat was an interview for the job opening, so I am wondering how I can follow up without sounding like I am bluntly following up on a formal interview. I'd like to get feedback and want to know what next steps are. Should I send him my resume and ask whether he would consider me as a candidate?


Nick’s Reply


I want the jobDon’t ask whether you’re a candidate. Tell him that he’s a candidate to be your boss.


This is the best kind of interview. It sounds promising, but we just don't know whether it's for one of the two jobs you mentioned or for something in the future.


Give the manager a signal


While you're worried this "non-interview" may lead nowhere, the manager may be waiting for you to tell him what's next. Many managers look for something few candidates ever display: motivation and desire for the job.


Having the right skills and experience is important, but I find that the best managers won't make a hire unless they see clear indications a person really wants to work for them. Motivation is at least as important as skills, which can be taught. The amount of time the manager spent with you is a strong positive signal — so signal back to him.


I want the job


Use your own best judgment, of course, but I think a simple e-mail is best, confirming your enthusiasm and motivation. For example:


How to Say It



"Thanks for the good conversation last week and for all you shared about your department (and for the coffee!). I'm impressed, and I want you to know that based on what I learned, I'd be very interested in joining your team if an appropriate position is open. You're the kind of manager I want to work for. Thank you for spending so much time with me."


Very few candidates ever come out and tell a manager "I want to be on your team!" yet that's what any good manager wants to hear – a commitment! What I'm suggesting is a very clear expression of interest without being pushy. I would not send a resume. If he wants it, he'll ask for it.


Show even more enthusiasm


If you want to go a bit further in showing your enthusiasm, find a really good article that addresses an issue that was discussed during your meeting. Attach it to your e-mail along with a couple of comments about why the manager may find it helpful. Show that you're already thinking like an employee.


When you make yourself this clear, you need not do anything else. The next move is the manager’s. Don’t keep pestering for a response. While you wait, the best next step for you is to move on to your next opportunity and pursue it the same way.


Nice work getting a meeting that's better than an interview! You had a conversation driven by your interests and the manager's — not by an "HR script." Whatever you decide, please let me know how this turns out. I hope something I've said is helpful.


(For more on the topic, check this article.)


Why do you think the manager invited the reader for coffee? Was this a job interview or something else? How should this reader follow up? Is “I want the job” the right message?


: :


 


Join us for discussion! Just Say It: I want the job


Source: Just Say It: I want the job
#15
New Recruiting: Let's just hire ChatGPT

Question First we had to learn to cough up the key words some Applicant Tracking System (ATS) wants to see when we submit a job application. Now we have to use ChatGPT to write our resumes and applications because employers are using ChatGPT to write job descriptions and postings. Where does it end? Why don't they just hire the ChatGPT? Nick’s Reply (In this column, I will use ChatGPT as a catch-all term for all generations and competing products of the underlying technology, because this is not an analysis of the technology itself.) An L.A. Times story tells how to


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Question


First we had to learn to cough up the key words some Applicant Tracking System (ATS) wants to see when we submit a job application. Now we have to use ChatGPT to write our resumes and applications because employers are using ChatGPT to write job descriptions and postings. Where does it end? Why don't they just hire the ChatGPT?


Nick’s Reply


recruiting-chatgpt(In this column, I will use ChatGPT as a catch-all term for all generations and competing products of the underlying technology, because this is not an analysis of the technology itself.)


An L.A. Times story tells how to write a cover letter and resume using the artificial intelligence of ChatGPT. The technology is credited by users with the skills of a professional coach or editor:


"The aspects of using AI to assist — it's a tool," job seeker Jesse said. "Imagine you had an expert next to you telling you how to get better... It wrote [a cover letter and resume] better than I ever could."


Seriously? An expert?


Is ChatGPT an expert?


Human experts like Noam Chomsky describe these A.I. systems in The New York Times like this (emphasis added):


"Roughly speaking, they take huge amounts of data, search for patterns in it and become increasingly proficient at generating statistically probable outputs — such as seemingly humanlike language and thought....ChatGPT and its ilk [are] a lumbering statistical engine for pattern matching, gorging on hundreds of terabytes of data and extrapolating the most likely conversational response or most probable answer to a scientific question."


"...machine learning systems can learn both that the earth is flat and that the earth is round. They trade merely in probabilities that change over time."


What game are we playing?


Employers and the Employment Industry at large are creating an increasingly complex game of recruitment advertising and hiring. Of course, now job seekers are learning to play the game by deploying ChatGPT against ChatGPT. (We warned you 7 years ago: Send a robo-dog to interviews.)


But how does this approach of gaming a system that is itself a game play out? Who gets hurt? Who benefits? Will Jesse get the right job? Will you?


What's the outcome?


The proliferation of job boards and ATSes doesn't seem to have fixed the talent shortage for employers, and it hasn't fixed unemployment for workers. But we still use them, perhaps because we keep avoiding an outcomes analysis. Maybe it's because automating it makes job hunting less painful, even if that doesn't really work.


So let's automate some more! But let's check the outcomes, eh?


Does reliance on ChatGPT improve:



  • the quality of applicants or candidates,

  • the quality of hires,

  • the quality of a job match for the job seeker?


Or are we just getting better and quicker at pushing a square peg into a round hole before anyone realizes the damage that may be caused?


ChatGPT: Everybody can do it


Then there's the problem of needing to use a cheat-checker to avoid getting caught cheating. Though Jesse lauded ChatGPT for cranking out good cover letters, saving him work, "there was one additional step involved: running the letter through online A.I. scanners that have popped up to detect A.I.-generated writing to make sure it passed the test in case companies checked."


The L.A. Times story cites other job seekers who report that "tapping ChatGPT to write their cover letters was a no-brainer.... 'A bot reads them,' they said, referring to cover letter and resume-scanning software that many employers use to filter out candidates. 'I'll get a bot to write them.'"


Everybody's doing it.


Interview the glove!


Kind of sounds like a nuclear proliferation treaty will be needed before real information about workers and jobs disappears in a mind-numbing hall of machine-learning mirrors.


Players on all sides of the Employment System have adopted a virtual process that creates avatars or surrogates to conduct the business of matching workers and jobs. Maybe another analogy is more apt: the old complaint about "washing your hands with rubber gloves on."


Just hire the ChatGPT


Of course, what's wrong with hiring someone who used ChatGPT to produce their cover letter, if this new employee will use ChatGPT to do their job, too?


Play this out, though: Who needs this new employee? The hiring technology could also be used to do the job.


Well, at least a lot of people other than Noam Chomsky seem to think so.


(Does anyone see what I see? ChatGPT is just the next level of keyword matching that drives sincere job seekers mad as they lard their resumes and job applications with strings of letters they know the algorithm is searching for. While the new tool is certainly more powerful — it will lard your resume for you — is it actually any different?)


What does the use of ChatGPT tell us about how the employment system works? If employers are going to hire based on auto-written cover letters and resumes, what does that tell us about how they assess job applicants? And of course, what does it tell us about job seekers who use ChatGPT?


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#16
How do I decline the other job offer?

Question Your interviewing techniques worked too well and now I have two exciting job offers! Based on your suggestions about how to choose an employer, I have evaluated the people, the product and the companies' reputations and I have accepted one of the offers. Your advice on how to resign properly was great, too – it went without a hitch. Now, what is the best way to decline the other offer? I would like to avoid a lot of "why" questions, because my reasons are mostly due to the reputation of the company I want to join, and I “clicked”


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Question


Your interviewing techniques worked too well and now I have two exciting job offers! Based on your suggestions about how to choose an employer, I have evaluated the people, the product and the companies' reputations and I have accepted one of the offers. Your advice on how to resign properly was great, too – it went without a hitch.


Now, what is the best way to decline the other offer? I would like to avoid a lot of "why" questions, because my reasons are mostly due to the reputation of the company I want to join, and I “clicked” better with the manager who would be my boss. Thanks for your advice.


Nick’s Reply


decline job offerI’m glad to hear my suggestions helped you win a new job and resign an old one – I love to hear success stories. You’re welcome, and thanks for your very kind words. Congratulations on getting two offers! Nowadays that’s quite an accomplishment.


Your wish to avoid a discussion about “why” you’re turning down a job offer is understandable. Let’s talk about a prudent and safe way to do it.


Decline a job offer via phone


The right way to turn down one of the offers is on the phone, not via e-mail. Despite the cold, impersonal ways most HR departments behave when they reject you, you should cultivate a higher standard.


Make the call to the manager who offered the job, not to the HR department. Awkward though it might seem to you, it’s important to take responsibility for your decision and to tell the manager yourself. This is a manager who wants to hire you and who could serve as a reference for you one day when you need one, or who might hire you in the future. This is the kind of relationship you want to cultivate and protect. So make the conversation personal and as positive as you can.


Decline a job offer concisely, politely and firmly


How to Say It


“I’ve thought about the offers I received very carefully. The opportunity to work with you means a lot to me. However, after careful consideration I’ve decided that another job with a different company is more suitable to my goals at this point in my career. So, I must respectfully decline your offer. But I want to thank you very much for your faith in my abilities. I hope at some time in the future we get a chance to work together.”


That’s it. If they press you, you can decline to discuss details just as politely and respectfully.


How to Say It


“It’s a better fit for me. There’s really not anything else I can tell you. Thanks again for the offer.”


Never disclose where you’re going


The less you say, the better. What if they ask who the other company is? Never disclose that, simply because it’s not their business. It’s rare, but I’ve seen companies try to torpedo job offers from their competitors.


How to Say It


“I’d prefer not to divulge the name of the other company because I don’t think it’s appropriate to do so until I am actually working there. Once I’m settled in, I’d be glad to get in touch.”


If you’re both local, you might even suggest meeting for breakfast or coffee. I’m not kidding — handled deftly, the manager becomes a friend, a reference or even a future boss. I’d never waste an opportunity to form a new business relationship. But let some time pass — get in touch after you’ve been at your new job at least a month.


Be brief and professional


In my opinion, you are required to be polite and professional. It ends there. You are not obligated to explain “why” if you don’t want to. If they get pushy, just thank them again and gently hang up the phone.


If my suggestions sound a bit unexpected, consider what happens when a company rejects a job candidate. The rejection is usually cold and impersonal. The candidate is left hanging and upset because the company does nothing to show respect or to maintain a relationship. That’s why it’s important to rise above the impersonal so you will be remembered positively. I wish more companies would do the same!


There’s one special thing you can do if you’d really like to leave the door open for future contact. If you like the company and manager well enough, even if they’re not right for you, suggest another good candidate. That’s a professional courtesy that goes a long way with some managers.


Enjoy your new job! My compliments to you.


How do you decline a job offer when you’ve got a better one?


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#17
The rules of interviewing don't work

Question This is not a news flash to anyone that reads your website: The flood of resumes and job postings makes job seekers feel like cattle while they're applying for jobs. We know the hiring process is even more impersonal and bureaucratic the farther we get into it. We can't control this out-of-control cattle drive, but once we're actually in a job interview (ring the bell!) how can we exert some control so we can stand out among even more competition? It's clear the rules of interviewing don't work! Companies have so many applicants to choose from that they hesitate


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Question


This is not a news flash to anyone that reads your website: The flood of resumes and job postings makes job seekers feel like cattle while they're applying for jobs. We know the hiring process is even more impersonal and bureaucratic the farther we get into it. We can't control this out-of-control cattle drive, but once we're actually in a job interview (ring the bell!) how can we exert some control so we can stand out among even more competition? It's clear the rules of interviewing don't work! Companies have so many applicants to choose from that they hesitate to hire anyone at all!


Nick’s Reply


rules of interviewingWhen the rules of interviewing don't work, agile job applicants change the rules. I'll tell you the story of a job seeker I met during an intense 1-hour Talk To Nick consultation I did recently to help her break through an employer's hesitation.


When the rules of interviewing don't work


Jing came to the U.S. from China on a work visa only to lose her job during the recent downsizings. She has rare technical skills but suddenly found herself adrift in a very weird job market. ("We can't find the specialized candidates we need! But we're flooded with job applications!")


For several months she applied the rules of interviewing she'd learned from her American friends. It was the same-old advice we all know — put the right keywords in your resume, recite your strengths and weaknesses, study up on the common behavioral interview questions, tell them you're flexible on salary, let the interviewer lead, try not to be nervous, and so on.


Because of her job skills, Jing had plenty of interviews. But, she told me, it always ended after one or two rounds. She really felt she was following all the rules. She always got compliments after her interviews. So why was she getting no offers?


Control the interview: Make it a conversation


Jing is smart, insightful and grasps things quickly. But she couldn't get past the barrage of rote interview questions — her language barrier put her at a disadvantage. So I showed her how to turn away from the rote Q&A script managers usually follow, and to have a slower, more casual conversation with the hiring manager instead.


Later, she told me that was the secret sauce for her. She felt she was coming off as very stiff and overly formal because she was doing her best to follow the prescribed script.


"In all my interviews I could not make myself relax and do my best because I was trying to follow all the rules my friends taught me about interviews. By changing my tone to conversational, the manager relaxed, it was friendly and we were able to really talk! That made me able to show my best!"


Two days after our session, Jing went on her next interview. At first the manager was uncomfortable with Jing's accent, but Jing compensated by speaking more slowly. Then she then expressed her interest by asking the manager about his team. While he talked, she relaxed.


She asked the manager what he needed a new hire to accomplish. He told her that in spite of her weak English language skills, he was impressed with her communication skills and by her focus on the job tasks. The rest of the interview was about the work, and she had a good offer in just hours.


"I didn't know I could control a job interview like that just by asking the manager to talk about himself!" Jing said to me later


There are many ways to control a job interview by breaking the script that makes interviews so awkward. Two of the most important are (a) change the subject, and (b) focus on deliverables.


Change the subject


Job candidates are naturally self-conscious in interviews because they're on stage. They are the focus. They must perform by answering questions. This interview script, which the manager and candidate buy into, can create immense stress and actually weaken the candidate's presentation.


A candidate can take control of the initial part of the interview and break the script by encouraging the manager to talk about themselves. In fact, research reveals that "letting someone share a story or two about their life instead of blabbing about yours could give them more positive memories of your interaction."


(There's science behind this tactic! Studies in social psychology suggest that when we express interest in another person they are more apt to like us. That may seem obvious, but few people know how to apply this fun fact of psychology to a job interview.)


With a big, friendly, curious grin, ask the manager, "So, what brought you to this company?" Or, "Have you found the challenges of your job have changed since you started working here?"


Be polite, be gentle and friendly, be curious, and — like Jing — be conversational!


By changing the subject temporarily, you can nudge a stress-inducing interview toward an engaging conversation that reveals to the manager how different you are from other applicants. That is, it makes you stand out positively. As long as you're also ready to talk about how you'll do the job, this brief respite can change your meeting dramatically for the better.


Deliver deliverables


A job candidate can also break the interview script — and control the meeting — by helping the manager think in terms of deliverables. (We discussed this at length in Stupid Interview Questions: #11.) Ask the manager, "What do you expect your new hire to deliver in the first month, 3 months, 6, 12 and then at 18 and 24 months?"


This is another way to make the manager talk and to put the focus on the job rather than on you.


Managers are hampered by the standard, rote questions they've been taught to ask. Helping them see that your focus is on deliverables changes the way they view you. You suddenly stand out because you're showing you're all about the work.


Change the rules of interviewing


The rules of interviewing don't work because they rely on a artificial script. Like Jing, you can take control of your interviews by having a real conversation with a hiring manager. Just change the rules!


What are the rules of interviewing? Which ones work, and which don’t? Do you control your interviews so that you’ll stand out from your competition? What’s the best way to do that?


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#18
You're happy at work. Should you interview anyway?

Question I’ve worked for my company for five years. I get assigned to different jobs often enough that I never get bored, and I keep learning new skills. So I’m not in danger of getting rusty or falling behind on training. I’m really pretty happy and I’m treated well. I envision staying in my industry a few more years, then I would look around for something else, maybe even in another city where housing prices are reasonable. So, should I apply to the occasional job posting online and interview anyway, even if I’m happy? My vacation time is precious, and


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Question


I’ve worked for my company for five years. I get assigned to different jobs often enough that I never get bored, and I keep learning new skills. So I’m not in danger of getting rusty or falling behind on training. I’m really pretty happy and I’m treated well. I envision staying in my industry a few more years, then I would look around for something else, maybe even in another city where housing prices are reasonable. So, should I apply to the occasional job posting online and interview anyway, even if I’m happy? My vacation time is precious, and I’d hate to waste my time or other people’s time on job interviews when I’m not really looking.


Nick’s Reply


should you interviewWhen you walk into a restaurant because you want maple-glazed salmon, do you think the chef runs out to go fish for your salmon while the sous chef taps a couple of maple trees? My guess is the restaurant developed ready sources of ingredients long before it needed them, because planning ahead is good.


So you, too, should line up now what you will need later: new friends and contacts, opportunities, employers and options. In fact, you should have started two years ago because that’s how long it can take to land a good job. In other words, you should always be doing that.


Should you interview even if you don’t need to seek a job? It doesn’t have to involve applying for jobs or interviewing. Exploring future job opportunities doesn't have to culminate in discussions about a job today. But here's the key: It's enough to pinpoint companies and people where you might go when the time comes. Knowing where you want to go and who can help get you there, before it's time to move, will give you an incredible edge in your job search.


Should you interview now?


Sure. But it’s more than that — and it’s even less. There are things you must do before you can get good interviews.



  • Start meeting people who work in companies where you think you might like to work. If these companies are out of town, meet them via e-mail, on the phone, via Zoom – or when you're traveling. These connections will grow in value, often slowly, but there are no returns in isolation.

  • Did you read a good article about a certain company or business line? Drop a note to the author (or to the people mentioned in the article) or call them. Explore the subject of the article further. Ask about their company, about their career, about the place they live. Make a new friend.

  • Stay in touch. Trade useful information as an ongoing habit. I find people are more inclined to respond when you're not fishing for a job.

  • Attend some trade shows or training programs where you can easily meet people in your industry. Have a beer with someone you don't know. The more people you meet, the more likely you are to become "the person that's wired for the job."

  • Take advantage of virtual meeting tools, but make no mistake. You are not likely to compete effectively against someone who makes first-degree contact — that is, in person — with people you need to meet.

  • At these events, participate in discussions about jobs and employers. Add your two bits. Offer to give someone who’s interested in your company a “cook's tour,” or to make an introduction. (I’m sure your company would love such referrals!)

  • What goes around comes around. It's good to do career favors for others. These need not be big favors. Don't expect something in return each time, but trust that contributing to the pool of good deeds produces more good deeds, and that will make your life better. It may even help you find your next job.


But, should you interview now?


It’s not really about interviewing, but going on an interview now and then, if a company really sparks your interest, can be a good thing. (See Which companies should I apply to?) There’s no guarantee they’re going to hire you, so don’t feel you have to be ready to accept a job. As long as you’re genuinely interested in the people, the business and the work, don’t worry about misrepresenting your intentions. The purpose of interviews is for employers and workers to meet one another and explore.


You might have noticed a common thread in all these suggestions: They all involve taking the initiative to meet new people and doing it all the time, even if you’re not interviewing. That's where future job opportunities come from. That's how you can keep your supply chain of opportunities stocked without wasting anyone's time. Do your fishing before you need to eat.


It's good to hear from someone who likes their work and their employer. Thanks for a new spin on an old question.


For real? A last word


I know many people will read my suggestions and scratch their heads. “For real, Nick? Who has the time or inclination to do all or any of that? It all sounds great but it’s not realistic in any job market!”


If you don’t do some of the things I suggest, you’re left with the status quo. You will get rejected again and again for jobs you applied for just because they came along — not because you really want them or can do them, or because they’re good for your career. The Employment System is an overly automated database-numbers game. Cynics play along and hope for the best, which usually means they get hired for a job they will likely soon quit or get fired from because it was wrong for them to begin with.


There is no easy, automated way to let the Employment System lead you to a job. This System leaves personal and business catastrophes in its wake every day. Pretending it might work when you need it is, I believe, a big mistake.


Do you wait until you need a job to find a job? How much time do you invest in cultivating relationships and connections in advance of a job search? Should you interview regularly to stay ahead of the game? What’s the best way to do it?


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#19
Burned out, quit without notice. What now?

Question I've been working for a very dynamic manager who gives me lots of opportunities for advancement. I've learned a lot, but I think I blew it. The last three months have been very stressful and two days ago I quit. I left my boss in the lurch — I quit without notice. I was just burned out and didn't know where to turn. He's a great guy, but he just kept piling on the work and I got to the point where I couldn't keep my head above water. Some tasks really required someone higher-level than me, but I


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Question


I've been working for a very dynamic manager who gives me lots of opportunities for advancement. I've learned a lot, but I think I blew it. The last three months have been very stressful and two days ago I quit. I left my boss in the lurch — I quit without notice. I was just burned out and didn't know where to turn. He's a great guy, but he just kept piling on the work and I got to the point where I couldn't keep my head above water. Some tasks really required someone higher-level than me, but I managed to get them done, working till after midnight at home and on weekends. My husband and kids just learned to live without me for a while.


How do I explain my sudden departure to future employers? I do not just leave jobs, but I just didn't feel capable any more. I know it was poor judgment to not give notice. Please help.


Nick’s Reply


quit without noticeSometimes stress pushes us to our limits. Sometimes it pushes us beyond. You’re right, you shouldn’t have quit without notice — or without first discussing your problems candidly with your boss. You will never know whether he might have adjusted your work load.


There are two things you should do.


Quit without notice: Fess up


First, you should go back to your employer, apologize, and offer to cover the job while he finds a replacement. That would be hard, I know. He may not even want to talk to you. Fessing up is the only way I know to try and salvage the relationship and your self-respect.


Second, face up to what happened when you interview with another employer. Whether or not your boss was being reasonable in piling on all that work, the bottom line is that the job and the company were not for you. You have to be able to explain, very briefly, why that’s so. Even if not speaking up was your error, your employer is at least as much to blame. Try something like this:


How to Say It


“I love my work, and I want to work in a better company where I am free to do my job effectively."


If they ask you what the problem was with your recent employer, be honest:


"I'm looking for a good job with a good company, but I never disparage anyone I've ever worked with... I came to you because your company seems to be one of the shining lights in this industry, and I'd like to show you how I will be a profitable hire..."


Focus on the company you're meeting with, not on your past or your old company. Be ready talk about what you can do for the new employer. That’s what matters. (See Stand Out: How to be the profitable hire.)


Lack of skills or too much work?


I've seen this burn-out syndrome before and it concerns me. You say you didn’t feel capable in the position you were in. I take that to mean you either weren’t skilled to do the job, or it was just too much work for you even if you could do it. Don’t let that get to your ego. There are jobs we can do, and others we can’t. Problems arise when we don't know the difference, and when we can't say stop before a disaster occurs.


I’ve known a number of talented people who have dug themselves into a hole they could not escape, except the way you did. It's a vicious cycle.


Snapped and quit without notice


Sara was a very smart and dedicated worker who enjoyed great success at her company for three years. But she failed to recognize that the work became more than she could handle. The harder she worked, the more responsibility the boss gave her. Bosses are guilty of making this situation worse, because they often take advantage of this kind of worker.


Sara got deeper into the hole. She became physically ill. But she was afraid to turn any work away. Finally, she snapped. Late on a Friday she slipped a one-line resignation letter under her boss’s door and disappeared. She couldn’t face him, her co-workers, or herself. Her self-confidence was shattered.


Is this job for you?


This is what happens when someone takes on more than they can honestly handle. The truth is, the job is not for them, and burning themselves out trying to do it hurts everyone.


This message is not just for workers. It’s for bosses, too. If a job is too much for someone, stop and face the problem. Don’t create more problems by ignoring it till it’s too late.


My advice to you: find a job you want to do and that you can do well. Be honest with the interviewer, and focus on what you can do for the business. Interview your future boss thoroughly. Ask to meet other team members and inquire about the boss’s management style when there’s a crunch. Don’t ignore warning signs.


If you take the job, grow your career slowly and carefully, and base your success on the new skills you build – not on how much work you’re willing to take on to prove something. Let your boss know when the work gets to be too much. There's a difference between "not doing your job" and "having too much job to do".


I wish you the best.


Have you ever burned out and quit your job without notice to your boss? What precipitated it? What was the outcome? Do you believe it was your own fault, or your employer’s? What should this reader tell other employers?


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#20
Burned out, quit without notice. What now?

Question I've been working for a very dynamic manager who gives me lots of opportunities for advancement. I've learned a lot, but I think I blew it. The last three months have been very stressful and two days ago I quit. I left my boss in the lurch — I quit without notice. I was just burned out and didn't know where to turn. He's a great guy, but he just kept piling on the work and I got to the point where I couldn't keep my head above water. Some tasks really required someone higher-level than me, but I


Join us for discussion! Burned out, quit without notice. What now?



Question


I've been working for a very dynamic manager who gives me lots of opportunities for advancement. I've learned a lot, but I think I blew it. The last three months have been very stressful and two days ago I quit. I left my boss in the lurch — I quit without notice. I was just burned out and didn't know where to turn. He's a great guy, but he just kept piling on the work and I got to the point where I couldn't keep my head above water. Some tasks really required someone higher-level than me, but I managed to get them done, working till after midnight at home and on weekends. My husband and kids just learned to live without me for a while.


How do I explain my sudden departure to future employers? I do not just leave jobs, but I just didn't feel capable any more. I know it was poor judgment to not give notice. Please help.


Nick’s Reply


quit without noticeSometimes stress pushes us to our limits. Sometimes it pushes us beyond. You’re right, you shouldn’t have quit without notice — or without first discussing your problems candidly with your boss. You will never know whether he might have adjusted your work load.


There are two things you should do.


Quit without notice: Fess up


First, you should go back to your employer, apologize, and offer to cover the job while he finds a replacement. That would be hard, I know. He may not even want to talk to you. Fessing up is the only way I know to try and salvage the relationship and your slef-respect.


Second, face up to what happened when you interview with another employer. Whether or not your boss was being reasonable in piling on all that work, the bottom line is that the job and the company were not for you. You have to be able to explain, very briefly, why that’s so. Even if not speaking up was your error, your employer is at least as much to blame. Try something like this:


How to Say It


“I love my work, and I want to work in a better company where I am free to do my job effectively."


If they ask you what the problem was with your recent employer, be honest:


"I'm looking for a good job with a good company, but I never disparage anyone I've ever worked with... I came to you because your company seems to be one of the shining lights in this industry, and I'd like to show you how I will be a profitable hire..."


Focus on the company you're meeting with, not on your past or your old company. Be ready talk about what you can do for the new employer. That’s what matters. (See Stand Out: How to be the profitable hire.)


Lack of skills or too much work?


I've seen this burn-out syndrome before and it concerns me. You say you didn’t feel capable in the position you were in. I take that to mean you either weren’t skilled to do the job, or it was just too much work for you even if you could do it. Don’t let that get to your ego. There are jobs we can do, and others we can’t. Problems arise when we don't know the difference, and when we can't say stop before a disaster occurs.


I’ve known a number of talented people who have dug themselves into a hole they could not escape, except the way you did. It's a vicious cycle.


Snapped and quit without notice


Sara was a very smart and dedicated worker who enjoyed great success at her company for three years. But she failed to recognize that the work became more than she could handle. The harder she worked, the more responsibility the boss gave her. Bosses are guilty of making this situation worse, because they often take advantage of this kind of worker.


Sara got deeper into the hole. She became physically ill. But she was afraid to turn any work away. Finally, she snapped. Late on a Friday she slipped a one-line resignation letter under her boss’s door and disappeared. She couldn’t face him, her co-workers, or herself. Her self-confidence was shattered.


Is this job for you?


This is what happens when someone takes on more than they can honestly handle. The truth is, the job is not for them, and burning themselves out trying to do it hurts everyone.


This message is not just for workers. It’s for bosses, too. If a job is too much for someone, stop and face the problem. Don’t create more problems by ignoring it till it’s too late.


My advice to you: find a job you want to do and that you can do well. Be honest with the interviewer, and focus on what you can do for the business. Interview your future boss thoroughly. Ask to meet other team members and inquire about the boss’s management style when there’s a crunch. Don’t ignore warning signs.


If you take the job, grow your career slowly and carefully, and base your success on the new skills you build – not on how much work you’re willing to take on to prove something. Let your boss know when the work gets to be too much. There's a difference between "not doing your job" and "having too much job to do".


I wish you the best.


Have you ever burned out and quit your job without notice to your boss? What precipitated it? What was the outcome? Do you believe it was your own fault, or your employer’s? What should this reader tell other employers?


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Join us for discussion! Burned out, quit without notice. What now?


Source: Burned out, quit without notice. What now?